Does astrology really fit tarot?

earthair

Here's my latest attempt...

I took a big deck and a mini deck, laid out the decans and zodiac as a blank chart.

Took mini deck, divided into 2 piles... 1) of 36 pips excluding Aces, and 2) of majors, aces and courts and Unicursal Hexagram. Shuffle well.

Started dealing out pile 2, when ever I got to a planet, node or Asc, I stopped and drew a corresponding card from pile 1 to tell me where to put it. Uprights= first 5 degs, reversals 2nd 5degs. That's why the minideck is off centre to the decan cards.

On the first deal through of pile 2, don't stop and find a place for any zodiac sign card. But keep them in order.

I used Fool as the Asc. When that appeared and was placed (outermost ring) I merely counted around to the opposite side and the next Ace to show up was placed as the Des. The next Ace to show up, I turned over a pile 1 card, got a 9, so placed the MC ace over the 9 Pents (as the only other 9 anywhere near a suitable placement was the 9 swords which was too low). Then the next (IC) Ace which showed up was placed opposite.

Whichever Court appeared first from each suit, were used for Ceres (pents/discs), Pallas (swords), Vesta (wands) Juno (cups), and a pile 1 card was used to place them, the rest were discarded. Yes the suit associations aren't great :joke:

Poor old Uranus, Neptune and Pluto aren't on Thoth, so when I try this with different decks, I would probably dump Ceres/Pallas/Juno/Vesta in favour of 'proper' planets+ Chiron and/or rework this bit totally and make more sense of the courts somehow...and it would be fun seeing Pluto in far off signs :grin:

Once the Asc was found, I took the maverick step of creating my own house system, by placing the remaining zodiac cards around the edge, starting at the Asc, in the order in which they appeared. [Hierophant card went walkabouts for a while so isn't in the photo where it should be :bugeyed:]

Aeon= North node, purely because it shares the same shape :joke:
Hanged Man=South node because it's the opposite side if you place majors in a circle [tenuous I know!]
Chiron= Uni Hex [because of the wierd orbit shape]
 

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earthair

Another interesting thing is that the Astrology Forum moderator has been touting the virtues of Whole Sign Houses for quite a while in lieu of the usual quadrant house syetems,

I therefore created Randomized Order Whole Sign House system especially for this spread :livelong: :joke:
 

Barleywine

I therefore created Randomized Order Whole Sign House system especially for this spread :livelong: :joke:

I decided to stay with the "objective reality" of my natal chart sructure and just rotate the decan ring around to start with the 2 of Wands at 0 degrees Aries on the 6th House cusp. The rest of the cards (quadrant rulers and associated court cards) follow along with that according to the established model. I'm going to spread it all out wide on the floor so I can get everyhing in, then take a picture.
 

Barleywine

Here's my latest attempt...

I took a big deck and a mini deck, laid out the decans and zodiac as a blank chart.

Took mini deck, divided into 2 piles... 1) of 36 pips excluding Aces, and 2) of majors, aces and courts and Unicursal Hexagram. Shuffle well.

Started dealing out pile 2, when ever I got to a planet, node or Asc, I stopped and drew a corresponding card from pile 1 to tell me where to put it. Uprights= first 5 degs, reversals 2nd 5degs. That's why the minideck is off centre to the decan cards.

On the first deal through of pile 2, don't stop and find a place for any zodiac sign card. But keep them in order.

I used Fool as the Asc. When that appeared and was placed (outermost ring) I merely counted around to the opposite side and the next Ace to show up was placed as the Des. The next Ace to show up, I turned over a pile 1 card, got a 9, so placed the MC ace over the 9 Pents (as the only other 9 anywhere near a suitable placement was the 9 swords which was too low). Then the next (IC) Ace which showed up was placed opposite.

Whichever Court appeared first from each suit, were used for Ceres (pents/discs), Pallas (swords), Vesta (wands) Juno (cups), and a pile 1 card was used to place them, the rest were discarded. Yes the suit associations aren't great :joke:

Poor old Uranus, Neptune and Pluto aren't on Thoth, so when I try this with different decks, I would probably dump Ceres/Pallas/Juno/Vesta in favour of 'proper' planets+ Chiron and/or rework this bit totally and make more sense of the courts somehow...and it would be fun seeing Pluto in far off signs :grin:

Once the Asc was found, I took the maverick step of creating my own house system, by placing the remaining zodiac cards around the edge, starting at the Asc, in the order in which they appeared. [Hierophant card went walkabouts for a while so isn't in the photo where it should be :bugeyed:]

Aeon= North node, purely because it shares the same shape :joke:
Hanged Man=South node because it's the opposite side if you place majors in a circle [tenuous I know!]
Chiron= Uni Hex [because of the wierd orbit shape]

I decided I'm going to need three decks to capture everything: large-size Thoth for the house cusps, smaller Magickal Tarot for the decan ring and associated quadrant rulers and court cards, and probably the Liber T for the planets and angles on the inside. If I get it spread out enough, I should still have enough room in the center to lay out 12 "question-specific" cards for a reading. All of the other cards just set the environmental framework within which to read those. I haven't decided whether to try putting the nodes in, but will probably use the Fool, the Hanged Man and the Aeon for Pluto, Neptune and Uranus. The Earth at the center will be "assumed," just like it is in a horoscope diagram. I won't use any asteroids or Fixed Stars.
 

MaryHeather

Meta and perhaps off topic, but interesting observation of this whole thread:

All the participants in the discussion that identify as male are either searching for, or outlining the mechanics of discrete systems, and angsting about points that do not have direct, logical one-to-one correspondences.

The participants that identify as female appear to be less invested in one-to-one corespondences, and dismiss theoretical conflict under the heading "if it doesn't work for me, I don't use it."

Neither approach has any more or less merit. I just find it fascinating.
 

Barleywine

Meta and perhaps off topic, but interesting observation of this whole thread:

All the participants in the discussion that identify as male are either searching for, or outlining the mechanics of discrete systems, and angsting about points that do not have direct, logical one-to-one correspondences.

The participants that identify as female appear to be less invested in one-to-one corespondences, and dismiss theoretical conflict under the heading "if it doesn't work for me, I don't use it."

Neither approach has any more or less merit. I just find it fascinating.

I'm also an experienced astrologer, so I'm pre-disposed, plus I'm an ex-engineer. Doubly-damned I guess :laugh: No angst, just coming at it from a different angle.
 

Barleywine

OK, I finally got the whole colossus laid out in one place.

The large-size Thoth cards represent the signs on the astrological house cusps of my natal chart.

The first ring of Magickal cards shows the decans aligned to the associated signs, wherever they happen to fall in the layout. (Scorpio in the 1st House includes 5, 6 and 7 of Cups, which in the "natural" horoscope - 0 degrees of Aries on the 1st House cusp - are aligned with Scorpio in the 8th House).

The second ring of Magickal cards shows the alignment of the court cards (Princes, Queens and Knights) with their associated decan cards,

The third ring of Magickal cards shows the quadrant rulers (Aces and Princesses) lined up to the middle ("Fixed") sign of each three-sign set.

The two Liber T Aces and two Liber T Princesses sitting on top of the decan cards show the angular points in the chart: Ace of Cups as Ascendant in the third decanate of Scorpio; Ace of Disks as MC in the 1st decanate Virgo; Princess of Disks as Descendant in the third decanate of Taurus; Princess of Cups as IC in the 1st decanate of Pisces,

The Liber T cards in the interior of the circle show natal planet positions by decanate, as follows:

Sun, Mercury and Venus in the 9th House, in the 1st decan of Cancer
Moon in the 3rd House in the 1st decan of Capricorn
Mars in the 11th House in the 2nd decan of Virgo
Jupiter in the 2nd House in the 3rd decan of Sagittarius
Saturn in the 10th House in the 2nd decan of Leo
Uranus in the 8th House in the 3rd decan of Gemini
Neptune in the 12th House in the 2nd decan of Libra
Pluto in the 10th House in the 2nd decan of Leo
 

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earthair

It's beautiful :)
Should I be putting my signs on the cusps instead of plonking them in the middle?
And your carpet is so much fluffier and cleaner than mine:livelong:

Re meta discussion- I noticed that too! I'm definitely a big picture first person. But I have no idea what gender ravenest is.
 

Barleywine

It's beautiful :)
Should I be putting my signs on the cusps instead of plonking them in the middle?

It's really just a matter of visual preference. Because I'm using Whole Sign Houses starting at 0 degrees of each sign, I want the house cusp, the beginning of the sign, the beginning of the first decan, and the tarot Trump to all coincide visually.
 

ravenest

OK, I finally got the whole colossus laid out in one place.

The large-size Thoth cards represent the signs on the astrological house cusps of my natal chart.

The first ring of Magickal cards shows the decans aligned to the associated signs, wherever they happen to fall in the layout. (Scorpio in the 1st House includes 5, 6 and 7 of Cups, which in the "natural" horoscope - 0 degrees of Aries on the 1st House cusp - are aligned with Scorpio in the 8th House).

The second ring of Magickal cards shows the alignment of the court cards (Princes, Queens and Knights) with their associated decan cards,

The third ring of Magickal cards shows the quadrant rulers (Aces and Princesses) lined up to the middle ("Fixed") sign of each three-sign set.

The two Liber T Aces and two Liber T Princesses sitting on top of the decan cards show the angular points in the chart: Ace of Cups as Ascendant in the third decanate of Scorpio; Ace of Disks as MC in the 1st decanate Virgo; Princess of Disks as Descendant in the third decanate of Taurus; Princess of Cups as IC in the 1st decanate of Pisces,

The Liber T cards in the interior of the circle show natal planet positions by decanate, as follows"

Sun, Mercury and Venus in the 9th House, in the 1st decan of Cancer
Moon in the 3rd House in the 1st decan of Capricorn
Mars in the 11th House in the 2nd decan of Virgo
Jupiter in the 2nd House in the 3rd decan of Sagittarius
Saturn in the 10th House in the 2nd decan of Leo
Uranus in the 8th House in the 3rd decan of Gemini
Neptune in the 12th House in the 2nd decan of Libra
Pluto in the 10th House in the 2nd decan of L