Quantum Tarot: A new deck by the 78th Fool and Leo62

[AngelC]

This new design is great!

Also makes my deck with the old one even more precious and rare.
I do want a version of the new full deck though if it gets published at an affordable price.
It looks great and my version is a bit hard to shuffle due to the lamination, but that's something you live with when you get such a treasure.

AngelC

 

[Leo62]

As you will remember, I was hoping to go into publishing (books and tarot) a year or so back and it didn't happen because I couldn't raise enough money to fund the initial project of six books and three decks.

However, it doesn't cost that much to publish a single deck. I did a lot of research on the subject at the time and it has proved very useful to a friend who is, even as we speak, in the process of publishing a new deck. The most expensive part of the process is the graphic design - the converting the ideas into images - and that, of course, you've already done. I'll dig out the information and send you a PM - I think you'll be surprised at how relatively inexpensive it is to get the decks printed and packed.

Thanks so much, Netzach - that would be much appreciated!

And thank-you too, AngelC - glad to hear you're still enjoying the deck.

 

[Adam McLean]

However, it doesn't cost that much to publish a single deck....I think you'll be surprised at how relatively inexpensive it is to get the decks printed and packed.

Printing a small edition is very expensive. If it was inexpensive
many people would be doing it and we would be swamped
in masses of new tarots.

The fact is, few artists can afford to self-publish their decks
by having these professionally printed, and they certainly
won't make any money from it. Indeed they will probably
be well out of pocket.

 

[Netzach]

I've just received mine . . . it's fabulous! I love the finish of the cards, too - the matt surface seems to complement the pictures.

Printing a small edition is very expensive. If it was inexpensive
many people would be doing it and we would be swamped
in masses of new tarots.

The fact is, few artists can afford to self-publish their decks
by having these professionally printed, and they certainly
won't make any money from it. Indeed they will probably
be well out of pocket.

Yes, certainly this is true if you're talking about small limited editions. However, once you get into commercial sized editions (500 copies and over) the costs are surprisingly low. But, of course, one can only do this if one is certain that the deck will sell well commercially - which not all tarot decks will. However, the Quantum is such a spectacular deck that I suspect it would sell extremely well.

 

[Adam McLean]

Yes, certainly this is true if you're talking about small limited editions. However, once you get into commercial sized editions (500 copies and over) the costs are surprisingly low. But, of course, one can only do this if one is certain that the deck will sell well commercially - which not all tarot decks will. However, the Quantum is such a spectacular deck that I suspect it would sell extremely well.

I agree that one can get what appears to be a really good deal
from a commercial card printer for 500 plus copies. When one divides
the costs by the 500 plus copies then it seems like one will easily
make money selling them. The main problem is distribution. If one
sells them oneself through a website then I reckon one is doing
well to sell 50 copies ! To sell a large number of copies one
must be in the commercial distribution system. Then one has to
give massive discounts off the selling price and cover the costs
of postage. It just does not work commercially. Only the big players
Like US Games, Lo Scarabeo can make this work. No single deck
publisher can get access to this market.

I find it frustrating that the costs of producing small editions are
so high, and I have tried to find alternatives, but the only I
can make this work is by doing all the production labour myself.
I suspect this is true for most small publishers.

The tarot market is split between the commercial mass market
decks with one pricing and production structure and the small
or self publisher with a different strategy and pricing. The great
thing about doing all the work oneself is that one is in complete
control and can make an instant decision - no marketing
department and interminable committee meetings to get in
the way.

I agree the Quantum Tarot should get and indeed deserves
a wider circulation, but I suspect Chris and Kay had been trying
all the available avenues. Commercial publishers often reject
wonderful decks. Hopefully, they will eventually be successful,
but my 100 copy edition of the majors at least makes this
available to a people who want the see the deck now and a
100 copy edition will not harm its future wider publication.

 

[baba-prague]

I'd just add that one thing that people don't factor in is size and format of cards. If you go with a commercial printer's standard card sizes (usually playing card sizes) the price can indeed be low. The minute you want larger cards (which often means different card stock too) and a special format, the price shoots up - often to double as what printers really do not like is "specials" (expensive and time-consuming to set up). Boxes and little white booklets etc also add, though usually not hugely. As for kits - well, that's a whole other story as the packaging design alone is expensive, never mind producing a box sturdy enough not to get crushed while it's being handled in the supply chain. If Alex didn't have a joint graphics/packaging degree, I doubt we would ever have been able to issue kits.

I agree with Adam that finding distribution for a single deck (distribution, NOT wholesaling - people very often confuse the two and they are not in fact at all the same) is very hard. One reason we are here and going strong is that we did - part by luck - find full service distribution in the US for our first deck. But we realise how fortunate we were - we just happened to hit a moment when our distributor wanted to expand their Mind Body Spirit offerings.

I also agree that there is a growing gap between commercial and self or very small-run publishers in this field. There seem to be many decks that will be wildly successful in a small run but could not be issued commercially. I suppose it all comes down to the fact that in a small run you only need to sell a few hundred to make a good profit, but in a commercial run you need to sell thousands before you even recover your costs. Personally, I have some sympathy for publishers who turn down good decks that they know would not sell in the thousands required - after all, remember that publishers are businesses that have to make sure they don't take on loss-making projects. I think in many cases they aren't making a value judgement on a deck but simply have to say no if they feel it wouldn't have wide appeal. Several times we've been offered decks that we feel will be a big success if issued in a small limited edition, but which we know we would never be able publish and distribute successfully on a larger scale. Painful all round in one way - but in fact I much prefer to urge someone to go for a successful small self-publication than try an unsuccessful and disappointing mass-market launch. And, by the way, I don't see one as "better" than the other - they are just different ways of reaching different buyers and users.

Incidentally, quite where we fit in I don't know - we're certainly not "big" but we do sell through standard distribution channels nowadays. Perhaps we are falling down the gaping gap (funnily enough we live in a street that translates as "the gap" - hmmmmmmmm)!

 

[Leo62]

Thanks for your comments, Netzach, Adam and baba-prague. This is an interesting debate. I'm far from an expert, but I've noticed a big change since my oracle deck the Universe Cards was published seven years ago.

Then, mainstream publishers seemed to be more inclined to take a risk. Now, with deep discounting by the likes of Amazon and the entry into the market of the big supermarkets, who can afford to offer whopping discounts too (admittedly only on commercial book titles), the publishing industry in general seems to be struggling much harder to make a profit. Which of course makes them much more conservative about what they take on.

The "gap" that baba describes interests me; the internet offers many alternative ways to sell, to publicise, to market, and there are a few determined and inventive people who have made it work for them. I'm sure there are many more, though, who have not made a bean!

I'm still undecided about this issue. We will continue to pursue a mainstream publisher for the Quantum, but we will be also be giving serious consideration to the alternatives...

 

[baba-prague]

Then, mainstream publishers seemed to be more inclined to take a risk. Now, with deep discounting by the likes of Amazon and the entry into the market of the big supermarkets, who can afford to offer whopping discounts too (admittedly only on commercial book titles), the publishing industry in general seems to be struggling much harder to make a profit. Which of course makes them much more conservative about what they take on.

Yes, I think the publishing industry has become very hard indeed - it's hugely dominated by a few enormous players (who not everyone realises are made up of conglomerates of what look like smaller publishers - but are in fact small parts of huge ones). However, on the bright side, well, so far we have somehow made it, which means it's possible - it's not like we are business geniuses or anything (well, the cats are of course ) But I do think it needs a bit of luck in today's very hard market - and the fact that we are in a country in which our basic living costs are lower than most of Europe has certainly helped - if we'd been in London we would have been like that scene on the RWS Five of Pentacles long ago!

I think the Quantum deserves much success, and I'm sure, one way or another, you'll make it happen. All good luck with it.

 

[Leo62]

I think the Quantum deserves much success, and I'm sure, one way or another, you'll make it happen. All good luck with it.

Thank-you baba! We'll keep plugging away...

 

[Netzach]

my 100 copy edition of the majors at least makes this
available to a people who want the see the deck now and a
100 copy edition will not harm its future wider publication.

Oh I do so agree . . . 100 copies will probably be seen by another few hundred people who, in turn, will want a copy of their own. The more it gets seen by people, the more likely it is to be successful if launched as a larger venture.