Tarot Association of the British Isles - courses

[Grizabella]

I should have read the whole thread before I dived in. LOL I bumbled right out into the middle of a parade through not paying attention so to speak, didn't I?

Go right ahead with this interesting conversation, everyone. You've all made good points. Never mind me.

 

[ribbitcat]

Hi Lyric -

But why couldn't you just do free readings on your own and not pay someone else for the right to do it?

Umm, no-one pays TABI for the right to do free readings. It's not a right. The *choice* to do free readings is a benefit of membership. Some people like to do free readings, and have the framework and support of a community in which to do them.

TABI does make money at this and therefore it's a money-making deal for them, which I suspect is their goal, bottom line, rather than other, more altruistic aims.

Excuse me ?? Please check your facts. TABI makes no money from this, It is a *free* reading service. It is an altruistic aim, in several ways - to provide a way for readers to gain experience, support from a peer group, an opportunity for people to do something they enjoy, and ( I hate to say this), "giving back to the Universe", I guess. I suppose also, if a querent thinks that the reading was any good, it may improve the general reputation of tarot and tarot readers, for some querents at least.

I'd rather just get my practice reading for free for the public on my own and not pay someone else to "let" me do it if it were me.

You have missed the point. TABI is not paid to "let" people read. *Some* members choose to take up the opportunity to benefit from the experience and mentoring that is on offer to them.

Heaven (or whatever) knows, you'd get tons of takers! Then you could ask some happy customers to write you a little endorsement and that's a lot more valuable than a certificate, when you think about it.

Is it ? It reminds me somewhat of infomercials, and the adverts at the back of the newspapers ..."Mrs. Such-and-Such from Xtown says the Abtastic Machine has given her an 8-pack stomach *and* removes stretch-marks!"

ribbit

 

[ribbitcat]

Hi JMD -

The point is, in the above example, that a person who is being told that they would die within three months IS acceptable under certain circumstances, contra the earlier statements that it is never acceptable.

Macavity says that it is unacceptable to *him*. He has that choice. You think it is acceptable in certain circumstances. You have that choice. Vive la difference !

With regards to ribbitcat's question as to "how do you know they can do those things ?" (ie, 'What makes a good reading? A person able to enter the reading at hand - which includes the cards, the situation, and the individuals - and communicate in an appropriate and sensitive manner relevant to the specifics of the situation at hand the same')

I don't - and neither can any certified endorsement, or endorsed certificate, provide that knowledge or assurance - whether the certificate, or endorsement, is provided after three, five, 27, or 301 readings.

Hmm. Endorsement shows that the reader has made some commitment of time and effort, has gained experience, has some ethics, is able to interpret tarot cards, and deliver the information in an understandable way. They have set themselves a goal, and achieved it. Even after all that, the reading provided may not satisfy the querent.

ribbit

 

[ribbitcat]

I should have read the whole thread before I dived in. LOL I bumbled right out into the middle of a parade through not paying attention so to speak, didn't I?

Go right ahead with this interesting conversation, everyone. You've all made good points. Never mind me.

LOL Lyric, a fresh voice is always welcome

ribbit

 

[jmd]

Am I to read from the above that, contrary to previously stated by yourself, ribbitcat, you now also see that there exists circumstances in which predicting someone's death would be acceptable?

As for ANY person who presents as a reader, this itself shows that 'the reader has made some commitment of time and effort, has gained experience, has some ethics, is able to interpret tarot cards, and deliver the information in an understandable way. They have set themselves a goal, and achieved it. Even after all that, the reading provided may not satisfy the querent' - all this unless, of course, they are fraudulent, with or without endorsement or certification.

Again, let's distinguish between the genuine value of courses and mutual support, and the presumptions of the claims of certified endorsement from an association for tarot enthusiasts.

 

[Grizabella]

***Excuse me ?? Please check your facts. TABI makes no money from this, It is a *free* reading service. It is an altruistic aim, in several ways - to provide a way for readers to gain experience, support from a peer group, an opportunity for people to do something they enjoy, and ( I hate to say this), "giving back to the Universe", I guess. I suppose also, if a querent thinks that the reading was any good, it may improve the general reputation of tarot and tarot readers, for some querents at least."

No need to get offended, ribbitcat. Slow down. I was referring to TABI charging money in general. I'm not stupid. I do know what "free" readings are.

***"Some people like to do free readings, and have the framework and support of a community in which to do them."***

That's true, but they don't have to pay someone to get that. Here, for instance, nobody has to pay.

 

[ribbitcat]

Hi JMD -

Am I to read from the above that, contrary to previously stated by yourself, ribbitcat, you now also see that there exists circumstances in which predicting someone's death would be acceptable?

*sigh* I didn't say that. I said, that to tell someone they're going to die within 3 months - and to tell them *just* that, then walk away - is not acceptable. I really don't think anyone would disagree with that. I haven't actually expressed a personal opinion on predicting death in any other situation/circumstances. I don't think I've even expressed an opinion on the idea of prediction itself.

As for ANY person who presents as a reader, this itself shows that 'the reader has made some commitment of time and effort, has gained experience, has some ethics, is able to interpret tarot cards, and deliver the information in an understandable way. They have set themselves a goal, and achieved it. Even after all that, the reading provided may not satisfy the querent' - all this unless, of course, they are fraudulent, with or without endorsement or certification.

Dear me, no ! There are people who present themselves as tarot readers who have done few or *none* of the above. And I've seen posts here on Aeclectic from some such "readers". Is that what you mean by fraudulent ? An endorsement process *ensures*, that the above has been done.

Again, let's distinguish between the genuine value of courses and mutual support, and the presumptions of the claims of certified endorsement from an association for tarot enthusiasts.

LOL the presumptions are all yours, my friend

ribbit

 

[jmd]

For example, who would not agree that to tell a querent that they're going to die within the next three months (say) is unacceptable ?

I would not, and provided an example above.

 

[ribbitcat]

Hi Lyric -

No need to get offended, ribbitcat. Slow down. I was referring to TABI charging money in general. I'm not stupid. I do know what "free" readings are.

LOL sorry - I sometimes unsheath the claws too quickly ;-)
But TABI are a non-profit organization - they cover their expenses, and the rest is used for subsidizing events, etc. They have an excellent Treasurer (Scrooge was a close relation, I'm sure ! LOL) , a bookkeeper and an accountant. A full financial report is made twice annually (I think), once at the AGM (definitely), and then at the end of the tax year (not sure about this one).

ribbit said:"Some people like to do free readings, and have the framework and support of a community in which to do them."

Lyric said: That's true, but they don't have to pay someone to get that. Here, for instance, nobody has to pay.

Hmm. You don't have to pay TABI for it either. As I've said twice before now
most members do not utilize the mentoring and endorsement that is available to them as a *benefit* of membership - as in, 200 odd out of 300 odd members have not/do not got involved in the free reading service. So they must have paid their membership fees for some other reason(s).

If it was me, I don't really want to do readings for other readers (as on Aeclectic) - I think it can be more challenging to do readings for people who have little or no knowledge of tarot. Also, here it's more of a ...closed circle ? in terms of who one does readings for. I don't know, but I imagine that those requesting readings and those doing readings are often from the same group of active participants, if you see what I mean.

Plus, I once made some comments on someone's reading here at Aeclectic (I mistakenly thought I was in the Talking Tarot Forum) which they'd *asked* for opinions on, and my comments were not popular ;-) so I'm unlikely to make the effort again. And it made me wonder just how open people are to learning ?

ribbit

 

[jmd]

Actually, the types of open readings posted on Aeclectic are not open to TABI members who abide by its rules, for it breaks its first rule by being publicly posted (even if only for feedback):

"All readings remain confidential between the querent and the reader and, if appropriate, the readers mentor."​

Also, any readings that simply, without any other aim, describe a narrative as seen in a spread in fact break its second rule, so are also not permitted by TABI members:

"All readings will aim to empower the client."​

As to the fourth rule, do all TABI members actually always check that it is within the client's means??? (if not, they are again breaking a rule to which they have claimed to agree):

"Any payment will be discussed prior to the reading, will be reasonable and within the clients means."​

Is that the kind of endorsement that is promulgated?

Is TABI against the numerous readings posted on AT? it should be if its rules are to be believed!

By 'fraudulent', by the way, I simply meant that a person knowingly presents something, such as the merit of a reading by presenting a certificate, which lead to "deception made for personal gain" - in this case, the deception is that readings can have a certified endorsement.