Tarot of Marseilles help desk (Frequently Asked Questions): Non-History

[Jewel-ry]

I have been out for several hours and I want you all to know that I appreciate the time you have put into these threads (its 12.30a.m. here). After a good meal and quite a lot of wine its probably best I say nothing but ... goodnight and I will re-read and post tomorrow.

Thank-you all for your time and patience.
Until tomorrow ...

J

 

[Moonbow]

I think what all new people here are concerned about is taking the meaning of Marselles in the wrong context. Its good to know that it can never be wrong, and that what our intelligence, research and intuition is telling us is correct - to us. It gives us confidence.

You are good people, prepared to share your knowledge and I for one really appreciate that. I would have no grounding at all if you weren't so generous.

This has been good for us all, if we can disagree but still have the same passion, we are allies.

Now - tell me all you know!

Moonbow*

 

[Lee]

I did want to mention that there is one book in English which discusses the imagery of the Marseille (Majors only) in great detail: "Jung and Tarot" by Sallie Nichols. The readers' reviews of this book on Aeclectic are rather negative, but I like the book. Of course, it's only the personal observations of that particular author, like any other tarot book.

-- Lee

 

[Rusty Neon]

Perhaps not as detailed as the book that Lee just mentioned, another Jungian-based book in English on the Tarot de Marseille major arcana is a book by Jungian analyst Kenneth D. Newman, called _The Tarot: A Myth of Male Initiation_, published by the C.G. Jung Foundation for Analytical Psychology, Inc. I own it but haven't read it.

From my visits to used bookstores, I've seen that Sylvie Simon, French tarotist, has a book in English on the TdM. Its coverage may be OK on the major arcana, but its coverage on the pips is disappointing as it basically gives fortune telling meanings only. She pays lip service to the numbers qabalistically, but there's no number+suit analysis and no attention paid to non-scenic pip details.

Wirth's book and Papus' books on the major arcana have been translated into English. Their decks deviate from the TdM somewhat but the discussion in their respective books may be useful.

There's also Mediations on the Tarot by Anonymous, where the author uses the TdM major arcana as a springboard to discuss his brand of hermetic Christian philosophy.

 

[lunakasha]

THANK YOU so much, Lee and Rusty!

From what I understood, I didn't think there were any English books on the TdM....although I do plan to order Gail Fairfield's book, Everyday Tarot, as Lee recommended in an earlier post.

I will be adding these other books to my list, hoping they will provide some more insight into the Marseille....I am such a book-nerd, as you may have guessed, so I just want to read as much as I can get my hands on....

Very much appreciated!

Luna

 

[Aoife]

My view, for what its worth.....

What is it that people want?
We already know TdM is a journey..... so I’m presuming people are asking for a map.
“Here’s the map” we are told, “it’s called the Major Arcana.”
“But it’s too detailed” we complain, “put yourself in our shoes and try to look at it from that perspective.... give us a book, an index, a precis”.
Hunh???

We’ve been given the map, for goodness sake. Not just any old map, but a treasure map. If we’ve got any sense, we follow it... we find clues.... we go wrong, backtrack and find more clues..... but all the time the treasure surrounds us. It’s the journey... the experience... the vista.

It’s human nature that we’re gonna look for shortcuts. But that presupposes that there’s an end in sight. Sure, there are shortcuts... been there, tried that. And all that happened was, I got there.... only to find I’d got lost. I had to start again... let go of preconceived ideas.... push away the pre-packaged and pre-digested material I’d spoonfed myself.... and look again at the Majors..... really look at them... with inner and outer eyes and ears.....

For me, TdM cannot truly be understood without trying to understand the history.... striving to understand what was in the heart and mind and experience of the makers. And that’s hard work... so much has been lost..... so much distorted.

The [millions of ??? I wish!] H&I threads are my textbook.... not a scientific guide, but an inspirational text. Okay, truth be told, there’s so much I don’t understand. But, no sweat.. tomorrow I’ll understand more... and more the day after. Sure, I get frustrated at times, but I do with any Art I’m pursuing. The important thing is... I keep on going and enjoy the view along the way.

 

[Lee]

I think it's a great idea to interpret the Marseille Majors in light of history. I just think that doing so will not result in one single right answer for each card, because history, like tarot cards, can be interpreted differently by different people.

And, as Diana says, there are no right or wrong answers.

As to why I'm interested in the Marseille, the answer is, because I like it.

-- Lee

 

[Jewel-ry]

I feel better for having all this out in the open and there are some really helpful people here, who have contributed to this thread and I feel encouraged by it.

I don't want to be spoon-fed and I don't want to be given all of the short-cuts, its just that when I want to know something in particular (as pointed out in my earlier thread about Justice) I don't know where to go to get the answer. I start off searching, end up in other threads which aren't telling me what I want to know, (and sometimes I can't even remember what it was I started out looking for ). I end up dithering over whether to start new threads or not because it may have already been discussed.

I guess the TdM is such a huge subject with so many sub-divisions of interest that trying to see the wood for the trees is sometimes disheartening.

For what its worth, I feel happier today. I got really bogged down with it all yesterday and ended up going off to 'play' with the RWS. (Is that a swear word on here?)

Thanks everyone for just being there when I was on a downer. I shall go back into my little corner and get my Marseille decks out now.

J

 

[Moonbow]

I have to agree with what Lee and Rusty are saying -- I am new to marseilles, and trying desperately hard to understand it and read with it. I have repeatedly asked, in various threads, if there is a right or wrong way to understand these cards. I don't want to get it wrong... no one does.

I read that tarot cards were first used by those that couldn't read (very few people could at the time) so they interpreted the pictures. They didn't research the history first did they? I now understand that we need some history knowledge but what happened to just picking up the cards and reading them?

Were there Tarot police around at the time saying 'you can't read that card that way - it's not the correct meaning'? I don't think so. They were just used - surely.

I have to carry on reading my cards the only way I know how and as time goes on I will pick up more and more information. I read everthing I can find about the cards, ask as many questions as I can think of, listen to everyones answers - then make up my own mind. What's wrong about that?

 

[Rusty Neon]

Book by Maxwell

I will be adding these other books to my list, hoping they will provide some more insight into the Marseille....I am such a book-nerd, as you may have guessed, so I just want to read as much as I can get my hands on....

I should add that there is a book by 19th century French tarotist, Joseph Maxwell, on the 78 cards of the Tarot de Marseille that's been translated into English. It goes by the title _The Tarot_. It doesn't get the ravest reviews, but it is the only book in English dealing with the pips (including their non-scenic pictorial details) until some of the modern-day French books on the TdM (e.g., Marteau, Sédillot, etc.) are translated into English. It's out of print, but you can still see it around.