Changes to standard images...bother you much?

[Teheuti]

It seems like a huge breakthrough to realize that you only have to use an approach to the GT that works for you. I think there are so many methods because they've come from lots of different people and it's felt that something is being left out if they're not all mentioned. Still, I'm always surprised how one person will swear by one technique that does nothing for someone else. What if you were only taught one way and it never worked for you so you felt you were a failure? Rana taught me chaining the houses several years ago, and I instantly loved the technique, which has worked well for me, but others see it as a meaningless waste of time.

I worked hard to understand knighting (especially in a Square of 9) and still feel I'm missing something, so I don't do it religiously, but because of all the work, my eye (or subconscious) sometimes picks them up naturally and in a way that actually helps. For instance, I've seen a couple of cases where the Man and Woman cards in a GT were linked through a shared card that both knighted. That card is always an important link in the relationship as discussed in the spread. But someone else might get the equivalent info another way.

 

[Flaxen]

Yes, to the suggestions to keep it simple with a GT.

With a bit of experimentation (and there is no harm in trying a few different techniques), I've found a method that works well for me. I discovered early on that I prefer a 9x4 layout and I use houses often. Knighting is something I rarely use. I also focus in on specific areas in the GT which interest me.

 

[SunChariot]

I like a Lenormand card to have the symbol of the card easily visible, but what about CHANGING that image? Do you care if there is a pair of scissors for the SCYTHE? Do you care if the COFFIN is actually a coffin or can it be an urn or sarcophagus? In other words, how interchangeable do you think images should be and still be called Lenormand? IS there a standard Lenormand image in your mind? I recently called the Bieri Lenormand which I like very much. The SWORD did throw me for a moment as it is used in place of the WHIP/BROOM. I can read with this deck just fine, I read it like I read other Lenormands, no matter what the lwb says. But I was wondering, with all the Lenormands coming out, how much wiggle room do they have to "substitute" symbols as far as what you like? Obviously a designer can put in anything they wish, but for you, do you like variety (like scissors, axe, anything sharp for the SCYTHE) or do you like your Lenormand straight up with no twist?

It doesn't really bother me, as the images don't affect the answers as in Tarot. In this deck, the card meanings don't change if the images do. An urn or a coffin would have the identical meaning. As would a scythe or a pair of scissors. In my mind the images are not necessary at all to this deck, just something nice to look at.

At work the other day I tore some paper into 36 pieces and wrote and name and number of one of the cards on each and it read just as well as my deck, which in my understanding so far is how the deck is meant to work.

If the images don't alter the meaning, it makes no real difference, in my mind. As I am not making use of them in the reading anyway. To me it makes no difference, unless there is an image that you really don't like to look at.

That being said I am not a big fan of the Stars card in my deck as it looks "smaller" than my meaning for the card and it makes me want to see something less. But I tell myself paying attention to the image is just a habit I need to break.

Babs

 

[greatdane]

Ah I see what you are saying, SunChariot

I am speaking of REALLY changing the image. So instead of, say a DOG, there is something totally different. The question is about really what makes Lenormand...Lenormand. As in a Lenormand deck. The number of cards? And if not the images, what makes it a Lenormand? I know many have different styles of reading all kinds of decks and I won't get into traditional vs intuitive reading, but when buying a deck, if you see Lenormand, tarot, what are your expectations?

 

[Teheuti]

Recently I was using a new deck I really like until the Cross card came up. Like SunChariot I mostly ignore the details of the images and focus on the meaning of that Lenormand card. But this Cross depicted a metal of honor with two crowns and a noble-looking lion on it. I really had a hard time concentrating on my normal meanings for the card. I only see Cross in a positive, religious or spiritual light only rarely if the question really calls on those meanings - but the picture and the word 'Valour' on the medal kept getting in the way of my main meaning of burdens. Unfortunately it kind of ruins the deck for me since I have so many other choices with card images that don't get in the way. It really is an individual thing. Some image changes are annoying and others don't bother me at all.

 

[greatdane]

We definitely all have deck favs, Teheuti

Or there would only be one deck and what a drag that would be . My question really is not if one likes the Cross or the Clover image, but really changing the image where you can't TELL what card it is supposed to represent. Does that bother Lenormand readers? If there was a deck that had a zig zag for the Cross, a Lion for the FOX, would that bother you? It bothers me. I just want to look at the card that is the FOX and see a FOX. If I wanted to read an oracle or playing cards, it wouldn't matter. But in Lenormand there are images I expect to see. Now, I may not LIKE the way an image is presented. You mentioned you didn't care for that CROSS, but you knew it was the CROSS. So my question, does changing the basic image so it is no longer recognizable as that image bother Lenormand readers.

 

[Teheuti]

So my question, does changing the basic image so it is no longer recognizable as that image bother Lenormand readers.

Well, to me, the Cross was no longer recognizable as "burdens". I don't have any decks where the image itself is totally unrecognizable. I have a few where there's something like a woman reading a letter - which I find hard to tell at a glance whether it is the Woman or the Letter card - annoying! I don't think I'd buy a purely abstract deck - although I did make myself a Lenormand deck out of regular playing cards where I simply wrote the name and number of each Lenormand card on the playing card. I consider that a functional deck. Mostly I just don't want to be *unnecessarily* distracted.

 

[Ryver]

I have a few where there's something like a woman reading a letter - which I find hard to tell at a glance whether it is the Woman or the Letter card - annoying!

I'm finding I don't like it much when there are mixed signals on a card especially if it's numberless and it's nearly impossible to tell which image is the one being implied without looking at the rest of the deck to rule out one of them by finding it elsewhere. Whew, I need a glass of water after that run-on sentence!

 

[greatdane]

LOL that made me smile, Ryver

About needing the glass of water . We talk about doing traditional readings, yet I wonder about traditional cards. I expect the FOX to show up in a deck and look like a FOX. I don't like having to search through a deck to figure out what image it represents. I am a very visual person, which is partly the appeal of the Lenormand. There's the image, front and center. Yes I have my fixed meanings for the cards, but it's helpful to be able to distinguish what a card is supposed to be. I want to look at a Lenormand card and think ok, CLOVER or FISH or TREE. Not hmmm? Is that...a Bouquet? Clover? Is that FISH or is it in a garden showing FISH so could be GARDEN or FISH. My first look at the Mystical, which by the way, I like, I saw the RING and my first thought was BIRDS til I saw the RING and the OWL cards. It's like just show me the MAIN image upfront and center. That's one way I see Lenormand different from tarot. There are many tarot decks with many different styles, Lenormand to me has symbols. I don't want to have to memorize a number (some don't have numbers), I just want to see the card and know what it represents. Now I need a glass of water...oooh peach tea!

 

[SunChariot]

I am speaking of REALLY changing the image. So instead of, say a DOG, there is something totally different. The question is about really what makes Lenormand...Lenormand. As in a Lenormand deck. The number of cards? And if not the images, what makes it a Lenormand? I know many have different styles of reading all kinds of decks and I won't get into traditional vs intuitive reading, but when buying a deck, if you see Lenormand, tarot, what are your expectations?

Lenormand and Tarot are different to me. In Tarot I LOVE and adore the new and different. I want a deck that helps me see the world in new ways. The more decks like that that I have, the better.

In Lenormand decks, which I am by no means and expert on. I think it would freak me out "if they called the "Dog" card "Cow" or something as it would not make sense anymore. dog and cows have different qualities and personalities. And in my mind Lenormand cards don't change meaning.

Scissors instead of Scythe would not bother me at all as it really doesn't change my meaning. Both are sharp. But if it were Like "Dartboard" instead of "Bouquet/Flowers" that would render the deck unusable for me. As that card would no longer make sense in the system.

I read something yesterday that made sense to me. That Tarot is visual, which Lenormand is verbal. Each card tends to have pretty tightly set meanings for me in Lenormand and together they form sentences. Tarot is more visual poetry. If you know what I mean.

Compltely off the wall original cards that have no connection to the usual carda are wonderful in Tarot, but I would not want it in a Lenormand. Different systems to me...
If that makes sense. Again I am very new to this, three days in LOL

In answer to what makes a Lenormand a Lemornand, which is a fascinating question, for me I think it IS in fact the cards and the set meanings each card has. Scissors and Scythe can have the same meaning. My meanings for that cards are sharp temper, cutting words, cutting away what is no longer needed....So that could apply to either of these with the meaning remaining the same. But Dartboard and Bouquet....loses the original sense of my meanings. If you stray too far from the original cards it would stop being a Lenormand to me. Certainly not the number of cards. As any deck that has 36 cards does not become a Lenormand.

Although, strangely enough, for me any deck that has the format of a Tarot IS a Tarot.

Babs