The View from the Other Side

[celticnoodle]

jcwirish, my condolences on the loss of your grandmother. What a remarkable incident with your son, though. I've often wondered if this type of communication is easier for children than it is for adults.

actually, I do find myself with the people that I know, that it is indeed easier for children to make contact with spirits. Why, I'm not really sure, but like most everyone else, I feel it could be that they are so innocent and have such faith in all they see and hear. Pure of heart and not cynical yet.

CN, thanks for sharing your experiences. It must be wonderful to have this kind of contact. Sometimes a thought will pop into my head and it seems like something my husband would be trying to say to me. I do admit that I've talked to him though I questioned my sanity while doing so. I'm not at the stage where I can deal with pictures just yet (found an old holiday pic in my scanner this morning and it set off a round of tears), but I will eventually try that.

yes, well many people question their sanity and other people around them may too. I'm sorry to hear that the pain is so fresh for you still. I am also sorry that you lost your husband--at least it sounds like that? My condolences to you on your loss.

Also, CN, your account of your niece's wedding has got me thinking...do the deceased move beyond their less pleasant earthly emotions, such as anger, fear, and sadness, or do they react the same way they would if they were alive?

generally they are past their less then pleasant earthly emotions - all that you stated above. Though for some, they still hold onto them for a little while, before finally letting it go.

Before my mil passed away, she was in a very bad way--(partially paralyzed from many strokes, and had lost both legs due to diabetes), and she had spent quite a few years in a nursing home. She hated it, of course, and finally convinced my fil to take her home and take care of her there.

The nursing home had to first study the home environment to make sure it was wise--which of course it was not. My fil was also older, and already had a severely handicapped son at home to take care of.

without going into all the details, both the husband and I spoke to the nursing home to let them know dad was not up to taking care of her properly at home, - being elderly and sickly himself, but they agreed anyway to send mom home. In 30 days time, dad had a massive heart attack and less then a week later died. I put mom back into the home, and she was very angry with me and would not forgive me for that. As a result, she would come through a few times--showing her anger with me at first--which greatly upset me. However, in time, she healed and came back to me and even apologized for her behavior towards me.

I fully believe that when spirits do pass away, they go through a process as they enter the light, where they see how they behaved in their earthly life. They come to understand every thing they ever did or said to others and how it affected them (the others). This is to help them heal and move on. Many heal right away and move on, some linger a bit in this place, and try to heal--which could be what many refer to as 'hell'. I do not believe in a hell, but I feel also that this place where the healing takes place is not the pure light yet. That you do not reach that pure place of oneness or full light until you have healed 100%.
Everyone will eventually get there though-some immediately, others take some time.

I hope this helps to answer your question.

 

[greatdane]

For what it's worth, Caristia

There are many here much more "sensitive" and who seem to have more of a natural gift to feel and see people, things some of us may not. I believe that staying in touch for many of us who may not normally be as gifted, or haven't developed that gift, may come down to the closeness and desire to stay connected. I believe that will, love, closeness, the desire to stay attached, all are powerful enough to transcend anything in order to stay connected.

 

[a_gnostic]

...I fully believe that when spirits do pass away, they go through a process as they enter the light, where they see how they behaved in their earthly life. They come to understand every thing they ever did or said to others and how it affected them (the others). This is to help them heal and move on. Many heal right away and move on, some linger a bit in this place, and try to heal--which could be what many refer to as 'hell'. I do not believe in a hell, but I feel also that this place where the healing takes place is not the pure light yet. That you do not reach that pure place of oneness or full light until you have healed 100%.
Everyone will eventually get there though-some immediately, others take some time...

This is a really interesting concept, a perspective that I've never heard before. It's also consistent with some experiences I had as a kid when it seemed that my close relatives were dying left and right. I had chalked it up to childhood imagination, but that might be worth re-assessing.

I'm also drawn to the idea that things that have been mythologized and embellished like traditional ideas of "hell" may in reality have more simple and direct explanations.

Very interesting, thank you.

 

[Richard]

I've been wondering what our deceased loved ones know about us. Are they aware of the details of our day-to-day lives, or do they just perceive general feelings of happiness, sadness, pain, etc.?

Do they share our joy, get angry or frustrated with us?

Assuming that the Self somehow survives death, I should hope that the deceased don't waste any energy snooping into my private life. From my "this side" perspective, that would appear to be rather like voyeurism. Also, I think that they should be beyond having any curiosity about my general physical or emotional state. If I were on the "other side" (and retained some semblance of consciousness) I certainly would try to refrain from prying into the private lives or minds of the living.

 

[Starshower]

Hi, celticnoodle. I find your posts very interesting, thanks!

About "hell" though ... what you describe is exactly what the Catholic Church worldwide, for centuries galore, has called "purgatory".
Purgatory is the place / process of understanding & sorrow for 'sins', of purification, healing & becoming perfected in order to finally enter "heaven".

"Hell", in the Christian mythos (& I don't know if other religions have this concept, but I think not) is eternal punishment & suffering, from which there is emphatically NO escape, EVER!

{I fail to see how billions of people consider this the product / consequence of a perfect & loving god! Eternal punishment for finite 'sins'??! In the name of 'justice'????!!!! :-o}

Now to address the thread question. Difficult to express! I feel that we are fundamentally all One Human Spirit / Consciousness, manifesting in myriad ways with differences of nature, nurture & physical & cultural circumstances. And even through time. I don't believe we can ever be separated from this ground of our being, manifesting from the Infinite Love, Goodness, Creativity & Wisdom of what I believe is 'God'. There is a little flame of Divinity within all of us, or we wouldn't be alive & have consciousness. 'I AM'-ness.

So, whilst I believe the individual body & circumstances surrounding any little person may appear to fade away after apparent 'death', when viewed by us from within apparent 'time' .... ultimately, in the Great Allness of Everything / Universe / All Creation / the Tao or whatever, all the goodness, love, happiness, creativity etc of every little 'piece' of Us is eternal and timeless. People & events cannot un-happen or disappear from the fabric of Reality, imo - even if we think 'the past has gone' from our limited perspective. Not all humans see it that way: some tribes see time as cumulative, building up in layers like sand. Or as a ball of wool, winding round ... or a spiral, etc. In which case, the past hasn't 'gone' - it's just out of sight temporarily from our present viewpoint. I feel my late very dear Dad, Grandma & many friends are only 'in the next room for now', as it were, & sometimes pop their heads round the door, metaphorically speaking, to say 'hi' & give me a hug of encouragement .... either through vivid dreams, or the sudden memory of a joke or a saying of theirs, or a rose in winter, or a blackbird's song at twilight (which Dad always said he would do, to remind me of his love).

I believe we are eternal. So inter-connectedness & occasional communication (as we experience it, from our little finite, time-bound perspective) with our loved ones who have apparently 'died' are not only possible but bound to happen, if we are spiritually & emotionally aware & open to 'reading' our experiences of this.
All of which means basically YES!

If we choose to see our experiences like that. But not in the sense of us being spied on, nor of souls being somehow bound to their last earthly existence. (There may be more than one - we have no definite evidence either way.)

We can frame & describe our experiences in countless different ways, as different cultures have done & still do. In a sense, I believe in re-incarnation too ... which can be deduced from my musings above.

 

[Milfoil]

Sometimes it is necessary to journey (go into trance) so that we can assist someone either by finding a lost part of themselves which is causing deep distress or illness or to help the soul's personality aspect of one who has died to find their way to where they need to be on the other side.

When I have done this, there is a distinct place which many shamans all describe with similarity. It is a grey place, insubstantial and misty yet there are pockets in the mist, through the trees etc where 'realities' exist or are created out of the concerns of the one who died. This could be what the Christians think of as pergatory since one cannot escape it until some kind of change of thinking occurs. One young man who had committed suicide was stuck there, reliving his last terror and anguish. It was a difficult but necessary effort to change his reality so that he could move on.

Another place where most people seem to go after being greeted by family, is a place which looks 'familiar'. So for Western people it could be a quiet village with a library, school, hospital etc but for someone from Nepal, it could be a shining city in the mountains. All the things they need to heal and learn from their life experience are there and offered in such a way that while their life memories remain, they can most easily make those changes.

Hell (the word) came from the Norse 'Hel' or underworld where the ordinary dead go. It was demonised by the Catholic church in order to convert people away from their old pagan ways. I have, however, come across a massive, gaping black hole like a well, stone lined but infinitely deep. Down there were the fragments of irreparable malice, pain and anger of people who many of us would label as 'evil'. The place is guarded but some are allowed to pass for certain reasons. I don't suggest anyone going there on a whim or for sightseeing!

Some of our ancestors move on pretty quickly, they achieved much of what was required and their memories and personality live on elsewhere 'over there' but a few do keep closer links, especially those who have some kind of connection to us either as protectors or guides. It could be that their help or guidance is part of their ongoing healing and growth which is tied in with our growth too. So it behoves us all to do our best, listen to our gut instinct and take the 'right' road when we know what that is, not just the easiest route.

Some ancestors come back to say hi or whatever they need to say, once in a while and their responses and changes also seem to be reflected in our attitudes too, like a two way street so that when both sides are suitably on the same wave length, the change can occur.

 

[celticnoodle]

This is a really interesting concept, a perspective that I've never heard before. It's also consistent with some experiences I had as a kid when it seemed that my close relatives were dying left and right. I had chalked it up to childhood imagination, but that might be worth re-assessing.

I'm also drawn to the idea that things that have been mythologized and embellished like traditional ideas of "hell" may in reality have more simple and direct explanations.

Very interesting, thank you.

Glad you like my thoughts on this, a_gnostic.

Assuming that the Self somehow survives death, I should hope that the deceased don't waste any energy snooping into my private life. From my "this side" perspective, that would appear to be rather like voyeurism. Also, I think that they should be beyond having any curiosity about my general physical or emotional state. If I were on the "other side" (and retained some semblance of consciousness) I certainly would try to refrain from prying into the private lives or minds of the living.

well, LRichard. hate to tell you this, but............they are watching you!

so, remember that as you go through your life. they may or may not let YOU know that they see all you are doing, but if they want to check in on you, they do! why would you even care? I, on the other hand, like the idea that they are watching over me. It doesn't bother me at all.

 

[celticnoodle]

Hi, celticnoodle. I find your posts very interesting, thanks!

About "hell" though ... what you describe is exactly what the Catholic Church worldwide, for centuries galore, has called "purgatory".
Purgatory is the place / process of understanding & sorrow for 'sins', of purification, healing & becoming perfected in order to finally enter "heaven".

true. true. However, the Catholics also believe in a hell. I was born and raised Catholic, and I do believe in a heaven, but not in hell. I think that hell is what WE ourselves make--either here on this earthly plain, or we may create our own hell when we pass away and we just cannot 'heal' from things. We still have the ability to go into the light--(heaven), and, Iguess the Catholic in me also believes that prayers by others here still on the earthly plain can help those deceased reach the ultimate goal of being immersed in the light.

"Hell", in the Christian mythos (& I don't know if other religions have this concept, but I think not) is eternal punishment & suffering, from which there is emphatically NO escape, EVER!

{I fail to see how billions of people consider this the product / consequence of a perfect & loving god! Eternal punishment for finite 'sins'??! In the name of 'justice'????!!!! :-o}

exactly! this is how the Catholics perceive hell--and I also agree that it is ridiculous to believe that our perfect & loving God would give us eternal punishment, etc. One of the reasons I have such a horrible time with my Catholic Faith. No to mention that I read tarot and do psychic medium readings. If my priest found this out, I'd be excommunicated on the spot. I find all this absolutely ridiculous in the Catholic Faith tbh.

Now to address the thread question. Difficult to express! I feel that we are fundamentally all One Human Spirit / Consciousness, manifesting in myriad ways with differences of nature, nurture & physical & cultural circumstances. And even through time. I don't believe we can ever be separated from this ground of our being, manifesting from the Infinite Love, Goodness, Creativity & Wisdom of what I believe is 'God'. There is a little flame of Divinity within all of us, or we wouldn't be alive & have consciousness. 'I AM'-ness.

this is how I believe as well, starshower. You explain it beautifully.

So, whilst I believe the individual body & circumstances surrounding any little person may appear to fade away after apparent 'death', when viewed by us from within apparent 'time' .... ultimately, in the Great Allness of Everything / Universe / All Creation / the Tao or whatever, all the goodness, love, happiness, creativity etc of every little 'piece' of Us is eternal and timeless. People & events cannot un-happen or disappear from the fabric of Reality, imo - even if we think 'the past has gone' from our limited perspective. Not all humans see it that way: some tribes see time as cumulative, building up in layers like sand. Or as a ball of wool, winding round ... or a spiral, etc. In which case, the past hasn't 'gone' - it's just out of sight temporarily from our present viewpoint. I feel my late very dear Dad, Grandma & many friends are only 'in the next room for now', as it were, & sometimes pop their heads round the door, metaphorically speaking, to say 'hi' & give me a hug of encouragement .... either through vivid dreams, or the sudden memory of a joke or a saying of theirs, or a rose in winter, or a blackbird's song at twilight (which Dad always said he would do, to remind me of his love).

yes, yes! I love how you state it here--that our loved ones are 'in the next room'.

I believe we are eternal. So inter-connectedness & occasional communication (as we experience it, from our little finite, time-bound perspective) with our loved ones who have apparently 'died' are not only possible but bound to happen, if we are spiritually & emotionally aware & open to 'reading' our experiences of this.
All of which means basically YES!

If we choose to see our experiences like that. But not in the sense of us being spied on, nor of souls being somehow bound to their last earthly existence. (There may be more than one - we have no definite evidence either way.)

We can frame & describe our experiences in countless different ways, as different cultures have done & still do. In a sense, I believe in re-incarnation too ... which can be deduced from my musings above.

lovely post, starshower.

 

[Richard]

......well, LRichard. hate to tell you this, but............they are watching you! ......

The dead are watching, and pigs can fly.

Ever heard of guardian angels?

 

[jcwirish]

The dead are watching, and pigs can fly.

Ever heard of guardian angels?

Yep... and spirit guides, totem animals, the soul, and even departed loved ones NOT ceasing to care for us just because they have slipped this mortal coil.

"There are more things in Heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy..." and all that.

I have had the distinct privilege of receiving messages from a few dearly departed through the gift of CelticNoodle's mediumship. Most notably, some very specific and personal messages from my deceased stepbrother who passed far too young. All of her talents were offered to me as a gift of friendship, not for profit or recognition. Her kindness and generosity will never be forgotten, and have changed my life. She's not one to toot her own horn, so I'll do it for her.

Of course, no one is required to believe anything they aren't comfortable with, but it would be just peachy not be mocked for having alternative beliefs.